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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Bifocal-OMO |
Posted - Aug 25 2009 : 12:43:21
Here are some of the Truths of what will happen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G44NCvNDLfc&feature |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Nosehair-OMO |
Posted - Sep 01 2009 : 12:05:59
I went to Beck's rally for the troops a couple of years ago. I brought my daughter with me too (16). I too listen to Rush (less than I used to though) and watch Fox when the wife is not in the room. I fully support the "broaden your horizon" mentality.
Btw, google "troll" as it applies to the Internet for further "Insight" |
| Fossil-OMO |
Posted - Aug 31 2009 : 22:50:19
Actually out of all of them Glenn is my least favorite, prolly behind your guy ed lol. It's not the message so much but the overly dramatic fashion he delivers it. puts me off. Hanitiy repeats himself every 5 min and Rush is full of bluster. But they do bring to light what the main stream media won't report most of the time.
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| Bifocal-OMO |
Posted - Aug 31 2009 : 19:17:43
Glenn Beck is good. I listen to some of all of them but FOX with Glenn Beck is one of the best. But some of you would explode if you listen to him.
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| Bypass-OMO |
Posted - Aug 31 2009 : 17:49:00
Cadaver I also was supported by the timber industry growing up my dad was a shake packer and my grandfather drove logging trucks as did a few of my uncles, I found out about the agent orange when I was 19 and had a job with the Department of Natural Resouces. Fossil I listen to Limbaugh,Hannity,and Beck occationally to be well rounded and hear both sides of the story hah. Just a side note Glen Beck is from the town I live in and is going to receive the key to the city for his accomplishments(and boy did that raise a few left wing hackles lol) so buckle up buttercup and man up and listen to both sides it will make you more well rounded in the issues!! |
| Bifocal-OMO |
Posted - Aug 31 2009 : 13:15:23
Expired, I am going to try to get this book. It will be starting to come out to disabled veterans. Here is the news about it on Fox news
http://fns.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/08/23/the-death-book/
How can helping the well cut the cost. People that are not sick don't cost anything. That is free money to the insurance company and the government pays nothing for their health care. It is those that are sick they want to get rid of. Don't say I distort anything. I am posting what I have either seen or believe is what they want to happen to us. You are so blind you will believe anything they say. You only see what you want to see yourself. We are two people believing in what we believe and that is my right as it is yours. Call me what you want I DON'T CARE. I want a better life than this administration has to offer for my grandchildren. You like it go snuggle up with them and get close as you can. That is your right
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| Cadaver-OMO |
Posted - Aug 31 2009 : 09:23:59
I didn't know about the logging roads thing, Bypass. It makes me sad because I was supported by the timber industry growing up. |
| Expired-OMO |
Posted - Aug 31 2009 : 08:18:14
I give up Bifocal, as I've stated before you only see what you want to see.
Bifocal quote "The only way to cut on spending is to cut the care of those that are sick. To do that would be rationing. In rationing they look at the value of the person. At 65, a person, they think, has lived his life for the most part and if he has failing health and it is a cost to them, stop the medicine that keeps him alive and get rid of the drain on the dollars. That is the only way to cut cost. You don't need to do anything for the healthy and when the healthy get sick and begin to drain cut their medicine or treatments and they die and cost go down. If that is not a death squad that determining yours, mine and our families then what is."
I post the actual language and somehow you arrive at that rediculous conclusion. Thats really sad....Oh well....have a good one. |
| Bifocal-OMO |
Posted - Aug 31 2009 : 06:44:40
You won't find the words "death Squads" in the bill, they are way stupid but not that stupid. The only way to cut on spending is to cut the care of those that are sick. To do that would be rationing. In rationing they look at the value of the person. At 65, a person, they think, has lived his life for the most part and if he has failing health and it is a cost to them, stop the medicine that keeps him alive and get rid of the drain on the dollars. That is the only way to cut cost. You don't need to do anything for the healthy and when the healthy get sick and begin to drain cut their medicine or treatments and they die and cost go down. If that is not a death squad that determining yours, mine and our families then what is.
As for the Agent Orange, I have it in my body as per lab test. It is showing its ugly self as a rash on my hands. So far I have lost feeling in the left little finger from bumps that have turned to sores and limiting movement on the little finger and finger next to it. The bumps are on parts of my leg and right hand also but not as bad. It is just a part of life I have learned to live with. I served my country and would do it again. I can swallow this pill and keep going as long as GOD sees fit. I am worried about my grandchildren and their kids and so on.
I know the government and they do look at the value of a persons life and would like for most of the veterans to just up and die. Shame on them and those that will support anything that will let the elderly be put out to just die. In 5 states, they already offer assisted suicide but will not pay for the medicine to keep someone alive. It sucks and should not be accepted.
Nose, I don't see mud slinging, you might because you are blinded by your hero Obama. Pull the scales from your eyes and look and then see. |
| Nosehair-OMO |
Posted - Aug 30 2009 : 22:58:48
Nothing Too Hot To HNdle here. Can we call this"Mud Slinging Championship"?
I'm just asking that's all.
Expired don't go trowing actual documents in here. That really "muddied" the water. |
| Expired-OMO |
Posted - Aug 30 2009 : 22:31:26
Here read it for yourself and then tell me anywhere in it that talks about death squads.
[copied and pasted from actual bill from the Library of Congress]
5 SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.
6 (a) MEDICARE.—
7 (1) IN GENERAL.—Section 1861 of the Social
8 Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x) is amended—
9 (A) in subsection (s)(2)—
10 (i) by striking ‘‘and’’ at the end of
11 subparagraph (DD);
12 (ii) by adding ‘‘and’’ at the end of
13 subparagraph (EE); and
14 (iii) by adding at the end the fol15
lowing new subparagraph:
16 ‘‘(FF) advance care planning consultation (as
17 defined in subsection (hhh)(1));’’; and
18 (B) by adding at the end the following new
19 subsection:
20 ‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation
21 ‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
22 term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con23
sultation between the individual and a practitioner de24
scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
25 if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has
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1 not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
2 consultation shall include the following:
3 ‘‘(A) An explanation by the practitioner of ad4
vance care planning, including key questions and
5 considerations, important steps, and suggested peo6
ple to talk to.
7 ‘‘(B) An explanation by the practitioner of ad8
vance directives, including living wills and durable
9 powers of attorney, and their uses.
10 ‘‘(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the
11 role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.
12 ‘‘(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list
13 of national and State-specific resources to assist con14
sumers and their families with advance care plan15
ning, including the national toll-free hotline, the ad16
vance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal
17 service organizations (including those funded
18 through the Older Americans Act of 1965).
19 ‘‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the
20 continuum of end-of-life services and supports avail21
able, including palliative care and hospice, and bene22
fits for such services and supports that are available
23 under this title.
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1 ‘‘(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of
2 orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar
3 orders, which shall include—
4 ‘‘(I) the reasons why the development of
5 such an order is beneficial to the individual and
6 the individual’s family and the reasons why
7 such an order should be updated periodically as
8 the health of the individual changes;
9 ‘‘(II) the information needed for an indi10
vidual or legal surrogate to make informed deci11
sions regarding the completion of such an
12 order; and
13 ‘‘(III) the identification of resources that
14 an individual may use to determine the require15
ments of the State in which such individual re16
sides so that the treatment wishes of that indi17
vidual will be carried out if the individual is un18
able to communicate those wishes, including re19
quirements regarding the designation of a sur20
rogate decisionmaker (also known as a health
21 care proxy).
22 ‘‘(ii) The Secretary shall limit the requirement
23 for explanations under clause (i) to consultations
24 furnished in a State—
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1 ‘‘(I) in which all legal barriers have been
2 addressed for enabling orders for life sustaining
3 treatment to constitute a set of medical orders
4 respected across all care settings; and
5 ‘‘(II) that has in effect a program for or6
ders for life sustaining treatment described in
7 clause (iii).
8 ‘‘(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining
9 treatment for a States described in this clause is a
10 program that—
11 ‘‘(I) ensures such orders are standardized
12 and uniquely identifiable throughout the State;
13 ‘‘(II) distributes or makes accessible such
14 orders to physicians and other health profes15
sionals that (acting within the scope of the pro16
fessional’s authority under State law) may sign
17 orders for life sustaining treatment;
18 ‘‘(III) provides training for health care
19 professionals across the continuum of care
20 about the goals and use of orders for life sus21
taining treatment; and
22 ‘‘(IV) is guided by a coalition of stake23
holders includes representatives from emergency
24 medical services, emergency department physi25
cians or nurses, state long-term care associa-
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1 tion, state medical association, state surveyors,
2 agency responsible for senior services, state de3
partment of health, state hospital association,
4 home health association, state bar association,
5 and state hospice association.
6 ‘‘(2) A practitioner described in this paragraph is—
7 ‘‘(A) a physician (as defined in subsection
8 (r)(1)); and
9 ‘‘(B) a nurse practitioner or physician’s assist10
ant who has the authority under State law to sign
11 orders for life sustaining treatments.
12 ‘‘(3)(A) An initial preventive physical examination
13 under subsection (WW), including any related discussion
14 during such examination, shall not be considered an ad15
vance care planning consultation for purposes of applying
16 the 5-year limitation under paragraph (1).
17 ‘‘(B) An advance care planning consultation with re18
spect to an individual may be conducted more frequently
19 than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant
20 change in the health condition of the individual, including
21 diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a
22 life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening
23 injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a
24 long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or
25 a hospice program.
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1 ‘‘(4) A consultation under this subsection may in2
clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining
3 treatment or a similar order.
4 ‘‘(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ‘order
5 regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect
6 to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to
7 the treatment of that individual that—
8 ‘‘(i) is signed and dated by a physician (as de9
fined in subsection (r)(1)) or another health care
10 professional (as specified by the Secretary and who
11 is acting within the scope of the professional’s au12
thority under State law in signing such an order, in13
cluding a nurse practitioner or physician assistant)
14 and is in a form that permits it to stay with the in15
dividual and be followed by health care professionals
16 and providers across the continuum of care;
17 ‘‘(ii) effectively communicates the individual’s
18 preferences regarding life sustaining treatment, in19
cluding an indication of the treatment and care de20
sired by the individual;
21 ‘‘(iii) is uniquely identifiable and standardized
22 within a given locality, region, or State (as identified
23 by the Secretary); and
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1 ‘‘(iv) may incorporate any advance directive (as
2 defined in section 1866(f)(3)) if executed by the in3
dividual.
4 ‘‘(B) The level of treatment indicated under subpara5
graph (A)(ii) may range from an indication for full treat6
ment to an indication to limit some or all or specified
7 interventions. Such indicated levels of treatment may in8
clude indications respecting, among other items—
9 ‘‘(i) the intensity of medical intervention if the
10 patient is pulse less, apneic, or has serious cardiac
11 or pulmonary problems;
12 ‘‘(ii) the individual’s desire regarding transfer
13 to a hospital or remaining at the current care set14
ting;
15 ‘‘(iii) the use of antibiotics; and
16 ‘‘(iv) the use of artificially administered nutri17
tion and hydration.’’.
18 (2) PAYMENT.—Section 1848(j)(3) of such Act
19 (42 U.S.C. 1395w–4(j)(3)) is amended by inserting
20 ‘‘(2)(FF),’’ after ‘‘(2)(EE),’’.
21 (3) FREQUENCY LIMITATION.—Section 1862(a)
22 of such Act (42 U.S.C. 1395y(a)) is amended—
23 (A) in paragraph (1)—
24 (i) in subparagraph (N), by striking
25 ‘‘and’’ at the end;
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1 (ii) in subparagraph (O) by striking
2 the semicolon at the end and inserting ‘‘,
3 and’’; and
4 (iii) by adding at the end the fol5
lowing new subparagraph:
6 ‘‘(P) in the case of advance care planning
7 consultations (as defined in section
8 1861(hhh)(1)), which are performed more fre9
quently than is covered under such section;’’;
10 and
11 (B) in paragraph (7), by striking ‘‘or (K)’’
12 and inserting ‘‘(K), or (P)’’.
13 (4) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made
14 by this subsection shall apply to consultations fur15
nished on or after January 1, 2011.
16 (b) EXPANSION OF PHYSICIAN QUALITY REPORTING
17 INITIATIVE FOR END OF LIFE CARE.—
18 (1) PHYSICIAN’S QUALITY REPORTING INITIA19
TIVE.—Section 1848(k)(2) of the Social Security Act
20 (42 U.S.C. 1395w–4(k)(2)) is amended by adding at
21 the end the following new paragraphs:
22 ‘‘(3) PHYSICIAN’S QUALITY REPORTING INITIA23
TIVE.—
24 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—For purposes of re25
porting data on quality measures for covered
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1 professional services furnished during 2011 and
2 any subsequent year, to the extent that meas3
ures are available, the Secretary shall include
4 quality measures on end of life care and ad5
vanced care planning that have been adopted or
6 endorsed by a consensus-based organization, if
7 appropriate. Such measures shall measure both
8 the creation of and adherence to orders for life9
sustaining treatment.
10 ‘‘(B) PROPOSED SET OF MEASURES.—The
11 Secretary shall publish in the Federal Register
12 proposed quality measures on end of life care
13 and advanced care planning that the Secretary
14 determines are described in subparagraph (A)
15 and would be appropriate for eligible profes16
sionals to use to submit data to the Secretary.
17 The Secretary shall provide for a period of pub18
lic comment on such set of measures before fi19
nalizing such proposed measures.’’.
20 (c) INCLUSION OF INFORMATION IN MEDICARE &
21 YOU HANDBOOK.—
22 (1) MEDICARE & YOU HANDBOOK.—
23 (A) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 1 year
24 after the date of the enactment of this Act, the
25 Secretary of Health and Human Services shall
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1 update the online version of the Medicare &
2 You Handbook to include the following:
3 (i) An explanation of advance care
4 planning and advance directives, includ5
ing—
6 (I) living wills;
7 (II) durable power of attorney;
8 (III) orders of life-sustaining
9 treatment; and
10 (IV) health care proxies.
11 (ii) A description of Federal and State
12 resources available to assist individuals
13 and their families with advance care plan14
ning and advance directives, including—
15 (I) available State legal service
16 organizations to assist individuals
17 with advance care planning, including
18 those organizations that receive fund19
ing pursuant to the Older Americans
20 Act of 1965 (42 U.S.C. 93001 et
21 seq.);
22 (II) website links or addresses for
23 State-specific advance directive forms;
24 and
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1 (III) any additional information,
2 as determined by the Secretary.
3 (B) UPDATE OF PAPER AND SUBSEQUENT
4 VERSIONS.—The Secretary shall include the in5
formation described in subparagraph (A) in all
6 paper and electronic versions of the Medicare &
7 You Handbook that are published on or after
8 the date that is 1 year after the date of the en9
actment of this Act.
|
| Fossil-OMO |
Posted - Aug 30 2009 : 22:15:07
As I've stated before I'm all about reforming the insurance companies but the bill they have now just gives govt too much control over the individual rather than with the insurance companies. There are just too many wrong things with this bill that the lawmakers won't even read, now that's just wrong in my book. There are a lot of Republican proposals that make since but since they include tort reform which would bring the premiums down they get rejected outright, the trial lawyers have the dems in their back pocket and if you want to talk about gross profits look at what they charge 40% of the settlement.
I'm serious, do you and expired really want the 1000 page bill that's before the house to pass? it takes away so many freedoms that are hard to ignore.
I'll listen to Ed Shultz the day you listen to Rush Limbagh. |
| Bypass-OMO |
Posted - Aug 30 2009 : 21:50:35
Well for all my good intentions I seem to have failed in the common sense aproach. Fossil when I said gross I ment discusting,out of proportion,not right, but I think you would of picked up on that and not gross or net pay sheesh. I was trying to direct your attention to the interview not Ed Shultz but the interviews you ignored, it seems both you and Bif did. When working americans that have insurance have to depend on chairity something is wrong with the system and it needs to be fixed!! Your death panels are private companies who decide if your insurance will cover an illness or not and for the most part it seems NOT and people are dying because of it but that seems ok with a few of you. Just thank god that for your daughters sake you have better insurance than I do.
Last January my insurance payments went up double and my deductable tripled and my coverage went down, now if I wanted the same coverage my cost would have tripled as my deductable did and my isurance company is getting rich in leaps and bounds that is wrong when the common man is struggling to survive but that it seems not affecting all of us so just keep your head in the sand untill it happens to you and I promise you will change your tune.
Bif I am sorry for the agent orange exposure I have seen the results of how that can mess a person up they used it here in washington to defoliate logging roads and I worked with a guy who used to spray it off the back of the truck and he was a mess I hope you have faired better than he did. |
| Bifocal-OMO |
Posted - Aug 30 2009 : 20:39:16
Expired You have read all 1000 pages yourself right I don't think so. I am telling you what the doctor said. You talk a lot about spewing and you do it yourself. There are people on a panel that will decide what you get if you have problems with your health over age of 65. So go talk to someone that knows and has already been briefed on what will happen in their facility.
I had gone to the doctor before he was in the VA system Also, You must be having breakfast with obama with your talk but you have always been that way so why should i thin you would change.
As posted by Fossil "Section 1233 authorizes advanced care planning consultations for senior citizens on Medicare every five years, and more often “if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual ... or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a long-term care facility... or a hospice program." [3] During those consultations, practitioners must explain “the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,” and the government benefits available to pay for such services. [4]"
so expired you need to check before running your mouth. |
| BackPainOMO |
Posted - Aug 30 2009 : 19:55:15
What's laghable are the journalists that have sold their soul to the left and over and over call the death panels a lie. |
| Fossil-OMO |
Posted - Aug 30 2009 : 18:50:56
Section 1233 authorizes advanced care planning consultations for senior citizens on Medicare every five years, and more often “if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual ... or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a long-term care facility... or a hospice program." [3] During those consultations, practitioners must explain “the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,” and the government benefits available to pay for such services. [4]
They don't call it a "Death Panel" but it sure seems like a good word for it. They just recently dropped this section that no one said was in there. well it's not in there now...
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| Expired-OMO |
Posted - Aug 30 2009 : 17:16:36
Bifocal quote " at present we do not have Death squads that determine what treatments or weather you are to old for treatment, but that is coming."
You are as full of crap as a "Christmas Goose"...What did you do, have breakfast with Sara Palin. I assume you are trying to refer to some of the proposals of the health care reform and if so then get your damm facts straight.
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN THE HEALTH CARE REFORM THAT TALKS ABOUT DEATH SQUADS OR SOMEONE DECIDING IF YOU ARE GOING TO LIVE OR DIE.
Before spouting off about something you heard or thought you heard that some one said or might have said, go and pull the actual document and read if for yourself. |
| Bifocal-OMO |
Posted - Aug 30 2009 : 04:40:40
Bypass, I said I do go to the VA as it is required for my benifits. Being disabled and not finding that I have a lot more things wrong due to agent orange, I am required to go there for certain treatment. Do not take me wrong, there are good doctors at the VA and at present we do not have Death squads that determine what treatments or weather you are to old for treatment, but that is coming. My VA doctor told me it was. He has no reason to lie about it. My regular doctor is the doctor that I go to for things not related to agent orange, cold, flu, things like that. Big difference in what goes on there.
As for Ed there and MSNBC, I have seen where they take and tell what they want you to hear. Most do that on every channel. I could care less that he was a rep and went dem or dem went rep. They are a liberal station and that is enough for me.
As for Ted, I hate to see anyone die. But he was as worthless as a screen door on a submarine to our nation. He wanted to legalize the illegals and give them a free ride. I don't remember that he brought anything to the table that helped the country. I might be wrong as anyone can make a mistake and he might have made one and did something good. I think that he was up there with the worst In the Nation. That is my opinion. He was a drunk as I was back about 20 years ago. Only I got rid of it, he didn't and now he is dead.
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| Fossil-OMO |
Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 22:40:56
quote:
Originally posted by Bypass-OMO
Fossil you acually missed my point in that what companies are making gross profits by gouging the american people during a recession which is obsene, but nice way to try to change the subject to the dems naming of a bill lol and the doctors from other countries can make a hell of a lot more money by practicing in america and retiring in their home countries due to our screwed up system. As far as Kennedy goes he fought for the average american his whole career and deserves a good Bill named after him. His contributions to the working class will be missed.
You're really making me work tonight! Please Define "Gross Profits" I'd be rich if I got to take home my Gross pay, but since uncle Ssm wants a piece of the action I only get the Net.
The net profit on a barrel of oil is pennies on the dollar. It's obsene of the govt to tax gas they amount they do, when they make it harder for the companies to pull it out of the ground.
The reason the Oil companies make a ton of money is they sell a ton of oil! If your profit on a glass of lemon aid was dime and you sold billions of glasses of lemon aid you'd be rich too. Most of that profit goes back into the business to search for more oil to pull out of the ground which isn't cheap.
Sorry for the hijack thread buy bypass started it 
As far as Ted Kennedy goes, I don't have much use for a guy who cheats on his wife and drowns his mistress.
RIP Mary Jo Kopechne
Speaking of damsels in distress I need put on jet boots and go save some |
| Fossil-OMO |
Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 22:16:37
I'd rather be fighting bad guys in my newly pressed spandex speedo but I guess I'll have address a few things before I don my cape.
Ed Shultz doesn't hold a lot of credibility in my book recently he said that conservatives wanted Obama shot, or taken out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsYIE_QkqNQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fradioequalizer.blogspot.com%2F2009%2F08%2Fmsnbc-libtalker-ed-schultz-opponents.html&feature=player_embedded#t=15
With reckless statements like that, that's all I need to know him.
The WHO, no not the rock band, the World Health Organization that Micheal Moore and company cite when it comes to the USA's ranking in the world as it relates to health care was ran by a Socialist from Norway in 2000 when that study was done. The formulas they use are suspect in that they skew the numbers to get the results they wanted (kind of like an MSNBC Poll) here's is the article.http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/ranking-the-us-health-care-system/
I'm not saying nothing should be done when it comes to health care, I don't think the Govt should run it. Now if they wanted to pay the bill or offer low interest loans in certain circumstances I might be ok with that. when my daughter was in the childern's hospital I saw quite a few poor looking families that might not have had insurance, I just wonder how they were going to pay their bills.
Why do the Canadian Doctors get paid more in the USA?
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| Bypass-OMO |
Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 20:31:35
I thought I said that Spec lol |
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