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Old Bugger OMO
frequent visitor
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 Posted - Dec 23 2002 : 00:29:48
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I havent been playing any ORB lately because Ive been buisy working on A Warcraft III map called Hive's Revenge TD. A free for all tower defence map where you chose the maze attackers. It is credited to both Hivemind and Old Bugger-OMO. Its almost finished. The beta versions have actualy become fairly popular even though I have only done test runs with it so far. Nice to know someone is enjoying all that hard work.
Hard work is a bit of a understatement. 16 hours a day for 2 days just to get random start locations to work.  Thats something that should have been easy to do but with how the map was set up I had to redo half of the triggers then debug them. So far I have spent about a months worth of time on it. Thats based on a 50 hour work week. 
All is well that ends well tho. I am realy happy with the way it has turned out. It still needs a few tweaks but is almost done. Once finished I will upload it to all the WC III map sites. When I do I will let u guys know so you can DL the final version. Should be sometime shortly after the new year.
Next project will be to go back and finish the Warhammer 40K mod I started a while back. Now that I know a lot more about the editor (and all its bugs) I should be able to finish it within a few weeks. The basic structure is about 75% done. Once that is finished I will do some beta testing for bugs and balance.
WC III isnt the gratest game out there but it might have the best editor for any game yet. Especialy with the third party add-ons. It is very versitile and fairly easy to use. I have 0 programing experiance and have been able to make one of the most complicated map setups out there. No, I never bite off more that I can chew. 
I am using it as my first baby steps into programing/scripting. If anyone elce wants to look into making maps for WC III or helping on some of mine just let me know. I can give you hand with the trigger system as well as troubleshoot for you. If anyone wants to help with custom text (ie. scripting) I have some cool ideas we could work with. I have had a lot of fun (and frustration) working on custom maps and I think some of you might enjoy it as well.
BTW: The most sought after skill in the WC III map making comunity is a talented terrain guy. They have programers out the ying-yang but hardly any good artistic types. So even if all you can do is make a cool looking map you will find no shortage of ppl wanting your talents.
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Country: USA
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mevanclark
new visitor
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 Posted - Jan 02 2003 : 23:04:13
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Hi Oldbugger. I love your map (Hive TD). The amount of time you put into it really shows. It's great that talented people like you are putting so much effort into making these fun custom maps. I especially admire your ability to polish and finish the map so that it's enjoyable to play to the very end. A lot of map makers these days start off strong with some good ideas and then get bored and leave their bug-ridden maps behind.
Anyway, I've got a programming background and I've worked with custom text a bit, so I wanted to offer help with your maps. I would love to see Hive TD (and any other maps you have) stay alive and growing coz they're so fun to play.
THANKs for the hard work and time spent
--mike
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mevanclark
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Posted - Jan 02 2003 : 23:11:29
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Hey Oldbugger. I love your map (Hive TD). It's really great that talented people like you put so much time and effort into making fun custom maps. There's not enough people like you out there who can design an code a great map. A lot of guys start out with some good ideas and decent maps but can't put the finish and the polish on the map to make it playable and FUN all the way to the end. Congrats on doin that :-)
Anyway, I come from a programming background and I've worked a bit with custom text, so I wanted to offer my help on Hive TD or any other maps you've got in the works.
The only thing better than a well done custom wcIII map is a well done custom wcIII map that keeps evolving, getting better, and getting fixed :-)
THANKs for all the hard work, and all those crazy hours you've put into the map
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mevanclark
new visitor
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Posted - Jan 02 2003 : 23:15:25
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Woops. I thought my first post got eaten by the bulletin board. Silly me.  Well, you get two posts instead of one ;-)
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HEARTBURN-OMO
Spammer wannabe
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Festus-OMO
spoon
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Posted - Jan 03 2003 : 10:19:52
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Bugger has a GROUPIE!!!!
Seriously tho, if I still had the game on my 'puter I'd check it out. I enjoyed those TD games probably the most of all the WC3 stuff.
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Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching.
-- Satchel Paige
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Edited by - Festus-OMO on Jan 03 2003 10:29:50 |
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Country: Canada
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Old Bugger OMO
frequent visitor
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Posted - Jan 12 2003 : 23:39:21
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Ty Mevan. Dont worry Festuts it wont go to my haed. After a while you get used to ppl telling you how great you are 
I finally have a released ver uploaded to a website. Download it here.....http://www.warcraft.org/w3m/map.php?id=1138
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ChrydGod
new visitor
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Posted - Feb 11 2003 : 08:40:15
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Hey wait! I'm another fan. I have actually been a fan since the very first versions released.
But i'm a bit lost now. First of all i am french (thus my english is not supposed to be perfect)
I am currently playing a nearly bug free version that is the greatest (still a bit laggy near the end when u don't have a Sledgehammer 4GHz with 2Gb of DDR600 ram ;-) ). That version is called GOLD yes "Hive's Revenge TD (Gold)". I got it from Northend, and i wish iknew where it comes from. I have also heard that a pro and a team versions were planned. Where can i be kept up-to-date about your wonderful masterpiece?
I am also starting mapmaking myself, but there is so much to learn. I was wondering if Oldbugger would mind releasing a non-protected version of the map when he will give up its development in order to let young (yes i'm only 31 - catching up slowly) hungry learners like me see how talented people deal with that worldeditor that still leaves some of us a bit behind.
The last but not the least : Congrats for another relevant proof that we are never too old to be creative and inventive, i don't think anyone has seen such an innovation in TD map making since the very first TD map released !
PS : I'm not sure i got it right : who is Hivemind ??
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Country: France
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Festus-OMO
spoon
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Posted - Feb 11 2003 : 10:17:46
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Hivemind is Oldbugger.
He is just so damn famous that he needs two names to handle it all
:)
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Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching.
-- Satchel Paige
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Country: Canada
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ChrydGod
new visitor
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Posted - Feb 12 2003 : 22:25:07
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héhé i though so...
I actually got many awnsers from wc3campaign's forum.
This said i just dl a so said Final version (hope not) on US West that does not seem to fix the spawn lag as it could (maybe-not a good mapmaker enough to be a judge there ^^ ) be done the way explained in that other site's Hive's Revenge thread.
This said i found the same great pleasure playing that map. I keep being in hope to meet all of u guys for a simple reason :
I AM SICK OF WINNING ALL THE TIME ^^
I mean
Nothing stops me : Searinoxs, Chaos Gate, etc...
the ONLY thing i'm afraid of is : HellSpawns, but luckily i always get it before the others when reaching the late game.
This said they are overpowered and 6 (even less actually) of then can handle the whole 4-7 chaos gate units when placed in center of map (especially when getting to level 10). They can also destroy a whole base even if completely made of HardPoints & well protected.
I have a question : I know all these bonuses from the trade center are random, but i find it unfair to get a chaos peon randomly as it is a free random win then ;-)
Well i also know that u have other important things to do, but unless some talented mapmaker offers to keep the brilliant work u've started, it might just stay stuck with that non finalised Final version that could be made even more wonderful without too much hassle (er... just a feeling, not a fact).
Hoping to get news from u Oldbugger-Hivemind, i send u & all the others from OMO my kind regards from frogsland...er...France, sorry. :-)
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Country: France
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ChrydGod
new visitor
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Posted - Feb 12 2003 : 22:41:27
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OMG,
Look at me so impatient i forgot a very important point :
- I have worked out that nodes are not worth their 1200 Gold
They indeed make half the damage of 6 turrets of the same type and then that for only 300 wood less.
Wonder why. I stopped using them, except when comes the time your income is so high that u don't have time to build turrets (then again lag is an issue). Could this be fixed in a future version (even if creeps hape to gain hp in the process) ?
That's all, sorry for a second post but i just forgot that important point.
Thanks again, and if u ever find a nick "EO-ChrydGod" on bnet, Northend or another, whisp me, i'd love to face my strategy to yours and hopefully lose for the first time. Then if u ever find time... I'll be there ;-)
Kind Regards Again
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Country: France
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Old Bugger OMO
frequent visitor
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Posted - Feb 13 2003 : 00:48:42
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Sorry it took so long to respond. Im having trouble with my ISP. Glad you like the map. Sounds like you realy know how to play it too. There are a few realy good players on west. If you want a chalange try playing on that server. Thats where I did all my beta testing so they have been playeing the map longer than the other servers.
Yes its true that nodes are not on the same cost effectiveness balance as the rest of the towers. The resion for this is that if they where 1k (thats what they should cost compaired to the other towers) the very late game with good players would take too long. The game is supposed to end some time. They still benifit from being a single high power tower that takes less time to build that 2 temples or 6 turrets. Also they dont cost wood. Thats important because it effects your offence and econ when you spend too much wood on defense. I tried to make every tower and unit in the game both balanced and useful. For the most part I was successful. There are no units that have no use and none that stand out as being much better than others.
Both Hellspawn and Juggernaughts where intended to be immense beatings and they are. Yes you need to get lucky to get them but I wanted some luck involved in some parts of the game. Keeps it fresh. Winning and losing is rarly based on luck tho. Almost always the most skilled player wins. Or at least the one who plays the best that game.
There are two new versions that have not been uploaded to websites. a (Final) and one called survival TD. The final is just the final ver of the basic game as you have seen it. It has rebalanced chaos upgrades and deals with lag a little better. Hive's Survival TD is the same map but with no summoner. That means no trade,chaos or summoned creatures or buldings. It has some anti-lag functions that are working better. That ver is also unlocked. I left that ver unlocked so ppl could see how I did the basic setup for the map and so they could make thier own ver off the base map. The full ver will stay locked so ppl dont make cheats for it.
Unfortunatly the best way to get those ver is to lurk on west. I am having a lot of problems with my ISP and my iternet connection is unstable. Took 10 min just to get to pont where I could respond to your post. If you send me a e-mail I can mail you the new ver when I get a chance. My e-mail is Hivemind@hot-shot.com.
I am continuing to work on maps. I am leaving the TD as it is for now while I make some other map styles. I will come back to it sometime latter and to the team and pro ver. Right now Im working on a AoS style map and a sea battle map. Like my TD they will be a lot different from other maps of the same style. Dont know which will be done first since im working on them at the same time. You can expect they will worth waiting for. They shouldnt be hard to find when they are released. From what I have done on them so far I can say they will blow away anything you have seen yet. IMHO :)
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Country: USA
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ChrydGod
new visitor
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Posted - Feb 13 2003 : 05:56:01
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Thank you for your awnser. It was a clear awnser as we all need :-)
I get some points a bit better (Hellspawns, Nodes, etc). It won't affect my gameplay, but my ignorance. Oh and you are right in the end a bit of luck can't hurt. Could even be the last hope for unlucky players randomly targeted by more chaos units than others... or not, lol.
Three last things :
- First i am ever so pleased you made the unprotected "Survival TD" version, as it will greatly help me learning map making. Maybe people will steal some of your work, but its not that a big issue as they would need too much talent and time to equal the Final varsion, and then if they ever could do... we won't complain if he protects it to avoid cheaters making 2000 versions suiting their own needs.
- Wow, thats another grea new, you're working on an AOS (what i used to call a corridor) and a sea-battle (a nostalgic touch of war2?) types maps i'll follow your work, i can't afford to miss that, ^^
- I was wondering if you ever planned to implement custom models or skins or spells. I think it can give a map a bit of a personnal touch. Mind you, it is not really easy and i am having a bad time with 3DSMax and its tutorials at the moment. But i have found that some custom units were really adding a plus to some games, like in DOTA and the X-Men RPG (pity that map has a boring gameplay).
Thanks again for the time you spend for your own and our pleasure and keep up the damn great work.
Kind Regards from France.
PS 1 : i might soon start posting in wc3campaign forum as i will definitely need a hand on learning map making.
PS 2 : Don't worry, i always talk (or write) too much ^^
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Country: France
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ChrydGod
new visitor
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Posted - Feb 15 2003 : 20:41:43
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Damn, i am a bit disappointed.
I still haven't lost a game of Hive but i played with a guy that was very tough.
After a while when we where alone, he admitted he found a cheat in the Final version :
Selling Slow Turrets gives u more gold than what they cost.
I hope this will be fixed as it should be easy & quick.
Kind Regards from France.
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Country: France
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CMOpatrick
frequent visitor
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Posted - Feb 15 2003 : 22:15:19
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hivemind? if that is you sirs, i still remember the lessons from homeworld... <S>
i was tiredOMO back then, but you never ceased to impress me when i played you, even the times i thought i was getting pretty good. i always wondered what happend to you, its good to see that you joined up with a good group.
again, <S> sirs.
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Country: USA
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Old Bugger OMO
frequent visitor
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Posted - Feb 21 2003 : 19:20:37
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CMOpatrick-
Thnx Pat. Yes it is us. And yes you did get pretty good. If you realy want to know what happened to me here is a brief history...
After leaving the HW ladder I joined up with some of the other top ladder players in BM (Blood Mofia). At the same time I was playing Asherons Call Darktide (pvp) server. I got involved in a large war between two cities and the fighting became intense. AC started to become a lot more interesting that what was going on in HW. So eventualy I just stopped playing. This was before the big BM ladder controversy. Still dont know the details but the major players on both sides are my friends so I didnt get involved. On one of my visits back to HW I joined OMO. Always felt a kinship to the old folks home and seemed like a good place to retire.
I told PreyOnU (who was also in BM and at some point OMO as well I believe) why I wasnt playing HW much. He said he had AC but hadnt tried it much even tho he had some rl friends playing it. So I got him to start and hooked up with his friends. I introduced them to a group of my rl friends that played the game. Together we formed a group that took over and for a year and a half defended a town that was considered undefendable. As far as I know the ancestors of this group still control it today.
After a couple years the cheating, hacking and exploiting in AC became too much for me so I quit. Since then I have been meandering around playing lots of different games. Nothing realy solid just whatever I thought was fun at the time.
I have always wanted to be a game designer. Once I found out that I could make quality game with the WC III editor without being a programer I started doing some map making. It can be frustrating but I love making games as much as I love playing them. Which as you might guess is a lot.
I am currently playing IC and I will definately be playing HW2. I will probibly also continue to do work in the mod comunity.
ChryGod-
No I didnt know about the slow turrets. Thnx for that. Yes I plan to use custom spells and at some point models too. I can do custom spells now but I dont have any 3d art program to do models with. If you want to make a simple model that I can use, make a ship with the sails changed to team color. That will help identify ships in the sea battle map.
Even if you dont plot you should do a lot of study on the websites that cover map making. It will help a lot just to read about the problems and solutions other people have. Be warned tho. The hardest thing about map making is dealing with both the game and editor bugs. I spent about 2 months making and tweaking the TD. Without all the bugs it would have taken me about 2 weeks.
In other words dont even try it unless you realy want to make a map. And if you do, start small and simple. The TD was my first map. Bad idea. I should have made a series of lesser maps first. It would have saved me a lot of reworking. When I started making the map I didnt know much more than the basics. By the end of the project I became something of a expert on triggers. At last count there where over 3000 trigger functions in the full TD.
If you do get into map making I wish you the best of luck. If your a savy enough player to be undefeated in my td Im sure you have the talent to make great maps. I look forward to seeing them.
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Edited by - Old Bugger OMO on Feb 21 2003 19:38:41 |
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Country: USA
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ChrydGod
new visitor
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Posted - Feb 21 2003 : 20:20:03
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Hi Master ;-)
Thx for ur awnser. Guess what : i just missed the survivor version of the hive on US West. Call it badluck ^^. Note that the only thing that really needs fixing in the Final version is that turret cheat. Yes i have played many games and still remain undefeated... or nearly (in the hardest game i played, i died 8 seconds after i won ^^). But i am uncomfortable playing with the map because of this bug, as i sometimes take 5 mins before i decide to sell a slow turret asking myself "am i cheating or not?". Damn dilemna :'-(
On the map making side, thank you for all your advice, i will always keep it in mind. I have actually just spent 2 hours reading threads about server splitting, also called de-sync so i start having a small idea of what you are talking about (and a small headache too btw, lol).
I would be pleased to make a ship model for u, but i can't promise to make it straight away as i am still learning 3DSMax and it is a bit more complicated than i thought ^^. This said, i am picking up slowly. As for the ship, the sails should be the easiest part as it might just require some mdl & alpha editing when the model would be finished. But due to converter's limitations, i won't be able to make it from scratch but from altering a existing model. I'll give it a try and keep you updated asap.
This said, i would be very proud of giving you any help i can. I know your map will be great ^^.
Kind Regards from err... REAL France (I love America!) oops sorry, off-topic ^^
PS 1:
Don't spend too much time on IC or anything else :-p
PS2:
Well spend anytime you want with them, but please never get bored with wc3 (Frozen Throne might be there soon - i hope)
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Old Bugger OMO
frequent visitor
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Posted - Feb 22 2003 : 19:12:43
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Frozen Throne should be great. New units, models and a upgraded editor. YES! I want that editor bad.
Sory I didnt mean I need a whole new model, just a modified skin will do. It dont have to be all the sails either. Just enough for someone to see what team each ship is on. Whatever looks best. A skull and crossbones sail for neutral hostile pirate ships would be cool too.
If you want to make some ship models feel free. Unless they look like crap I would love to use them. There is all of 2 ship models in the game now. Not a lot of varety there.
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ChrydGod
new visitor
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Posted - Feb 26 2003 : 21:52:56
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Right. I started working on the ships. I might just change my mind and forget the idea i had of making them from scratch. The easiest would be to make multiple copies of the existing ship versions and mod them. Thus we could obtain as many boat models as wanted without any implementation problem (they'll use existing models animations, etc). If u ever make a kind of sea battle map though, you might need to wait for Frozen Throne's Editor in order to get proper sailing effects as people seem to have problems with them unless you manage to solve that with triggers. In any case, let me know about your plans as i might be unable to work on the ships for a couple of weeks (i have to go to england for work).
Hoping to hear from you soon.
Kind Regards from France.
PS :
Could you actually do me a favor and post the survivor version of the Hive to my e-mail adress (chrydgod@free.fr) ? I have never found it on bnet anymore and start loosing hope.
MTIA !
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Country: France
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ChrydGod
new visitor
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Posted - Feb 26 2003 : 21:57:12
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-- QUICK NOTE --
lol !
It seems i did not even read my previous post !!!
Well i though it would be better to make several models for you as the existing ones are a bit limited in variety as you specified.
That is why i still tried to make them from scratch. ^^
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Country: France
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Old Bugger OMO
frequent visitor
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Posted - Mar 04 2003 : 21:24:55
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Ill E-mail a copy of all the latest ver of the TD map to everyone who has been asking for it when I get my DSL up again. Should be sometime this week or next.
I know the problems with sea maps and I have a solution. Custom pathing map. I am having problems with it tho. Having a little trouble making the ship boarding triggers work. I almost have it but it still has a few bugs i need to fix.
And yes, that means you will actualy be able to board other ships and take them over with a mini boarding action. There is a lot more to it than just ships shooting at each other. Quests, trade and shipping of goods, multiway dynamic aliances, heroes, many types of resources and special ship upgrades. Its a complicated map but like the TD it will be worth the effort.
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Hive's Revenge TD (WC III)
