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Havok
regular visitor
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 Posted - Jun 18 2008 : 14:30:53
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Why is this even a question? Bush called for drilling in the U.S. and off our coast today, and rather than consider the logic in this the libs have:
1. Decided that taxing the oil companies (windfall profit) is a better response to rising gas prices.
2. Started talking about nationalizing the whole oil industry or at the least, the refineries.
I shake my head and have to wonder just what is going to bring the Democratic party back from the far left turn they have taken over the last 40 plus years.
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burniste
frequent visitor
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Posted - Jun 18 2008 : 15:23:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Havok
Democratic party back from the far left turn they have taken over the last 40 plus years.
far right, far left, what i'd like to see is what happens in the local elections: no party affiliation, voters have to do thier homework and figure out where the politico stands on issues, not party lines.
for those of you that vote a straight ticket, Dem or Repub, get off your lazy @$$ and figure out who best represents you. if they all happen to be Dem or Repub, congratulations, you just made an informed vote . . .
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Nosehair-OMO
Administrator
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Posted - Jun 18 2008 : 15:29:31
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Drill for oil?
We have perhaps a 7 year supply of oil if we drill the known reserves. Exploration is not a bad idea, but it is not a known solution. Although if they keep raising the prices they could make the profits they have grown used to. It will be at LEAST 10 years before we even see the flow START. Wouldn't it make more sense to begin investing in alternative supplies for our energy needs. Seems like logic, but then again... I like Kool-Aid.
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Fossil-OMO
Moderator
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Posted - Jun 18 2008 : 15:39:34
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You know, we are the ONLY country that doesn't allow off shore oil drilling, how does this make any sense? The left will say that we already have enough oil leases with out having to drill in the "pristine" wilderness that NOBODY goes to ever in a million years, the truth is there ISN'T enough oil on those leases to justify the expense of drilling there.
They act like we'd be destroying environment if we punch a hole in the ground, where I live we have oil wells in peoples back yards and in wheat fields and just about everywhere you look one is popping up. It's no more an eye sore than the numerous cell towers that everywhere and I don't hear the libs bitch about those.
The poor cheer on the Dems when they talk about soaking the rich with tax hikes but they'll change their tune once gas hits 5 bucks a gallon and the Dems tell them just to suck it up because they're saving the environment.
"We have perhaps a 7 year supply of oil if we drill the known reserves"
Cite your source please.
We should look for other forms of energy for future use of course, but in the MEANTIME, lets not let the producers of other nations control the supply by weening ourselves off foreign oil.
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Edited by - Fossil-OMO on Jun 18 2008 15:47:24 |
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Havok
regular visitor
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 Posted - Jun 19 2008 : 05:04:30
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quote:
"We have perhaps a 7 year supply of oil if we drill the known reserves"
Cite your source please.
The libs said yesterday that there are 14 years worth of oil under existing leases and that would make a difference in my thinking. Problem is, no one can seem to get the data to prove 14 or 7 years. So lets see some data on that, because personally, I think the libs have concocted another "fib".
Alternate energy sources is a no-brainer and the conservatives in this country have been banging that gavel since Reagan. Bush suggested a hydrogen vehicle and everyone laughed. Now I see tv commercials from BMW telling us about a prototype.
And as far as "record profits" ...... welcome to capitalism because that's what happens when a company has ........ "record revenues." 
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Specimen-OMO
OMO stalker
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Posted - Jun 19 2008 : 05:32:54
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We're all going to be paying $2.25/liter eventually like the Europeans regardless of how many new wells are being drilled. China and India two of the worlds most populated countries are consuming more and more each day. And with $4000.00 brand new cards over there, their demand will for oil will accelerate. A renewable source needs to be developed.
You nor anyone else on this planet is alone anymore. Welcome to the global economy where companies, not goverment, rule.
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Edited by - Specimen-OMO on Jun 19 2008 05:33:29 |
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Dirtbag-OMO
freakofnature
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Nosehair-OMO
Administrator
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Posted - Jun 19 2008 : 16:16:16
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Hey that article was from 3 months ago. Where is the oil???
I guess I can hold onto the guzzler a bit longer then if they hit the mother load.
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Dirtbag-OMO
freakofnature
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Posted - Jun 19 2008 : 18:07:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Nosehair-OMO
Hey that article was from 3 months ago. Where is the oil???
I guess I can hold onto the guzzler a bit longer then if they hit the mother load.
Guess who will be first in line to stop the drilling?
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Specimen-OMO
OMO stalker
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Posted - Jun 19 2008 : 18:18:00
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Do you really think just because there is more oil that the price will drop? It will always be what the market can bear. Why would they sell it to you cheaper if they (yes the oil companies) can sell it for more in other markets?
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Country: Canada
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burniste
frequent visitor
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Posted - Jun 20 2008 : 06:56:27
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i just read where China is upping the price of gas and diesel they sell
locally, and it dropped the speculators, er, market price four dollars a
barrel. then a US ship in the straight of hormuz fired a warning shot across
the bow of a fishing boat, erasing the drop in price.
it appears to me we are in a global economy, benefitting the short-sellers and
speculators across all markets.
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BackPainOMO
Have Blunderbus, Will Plunder!
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Posted - Jun 20 2008 : 08:52:36
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I'm loving hearing the stupidity of some of the left wing talking heads saying we should not open up offshore drilling because we need a solution NOW and offshore drilling would take too long.
That is one of the same bone headed arguments they were giving 10 years ago, too. I'm beginning to wonder if one of the big differences in the left and right is the left's requirement of instant gratification.
Then there is the idiot that says the current leases the oil companies hold (that they are not drilling) are good enough. Even if they are much harder areas to drill in than the anwar and offshore drilling now being proposed. We should be going after the easy stuff first, ya nimrod. How about trading the hard to drill leases for the easier to drill sites. Maybe charge a little for the swap and add a requirement they are drilled within x number of years or they're forfeit. Something needs to get done and it needs to include long-term AND short/medium term planning.
Obama's solution is like many other extremist libs: Go live in a log cabin with no electricity and burn cow patties for fuel.
The Democrats can lose this one and have a martyr, or let Obama win and be totally exposed for having their party taken over by wackos and have their party destroyed when it is held against them.
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| "The (Democratic) Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. ... We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" --George Orwell, "1984" - And if you have not figured that out by now with Obama in office, there is no hope. |
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Dirtbag-OMO
freakofnature
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Posted - Jun 20 2008 : 09:03:15
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Supply and demand is what drives prices. We need more refineries. But there's a group of people (they know who they are) that will not allow more refineries.
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BluehairOMO
Bark like a dog for me
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Posted - Jun 20 2008 : 20:53:19
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OK, here is what I learned from NPR and other news shows all week on just this topic. I cannot name specific sources but they were all authorities on one side or the other of the issue and both sides made good points.
1. Both sides agree that any new offshore fields would not affect either production or price for upwards to 15-20 years.
2. U.S. oil companies are rated for investment by their proven RESERVES, not current production.
3. U.S. Oil companies already have large proven reserves under lease on land in the U.S. that are not in production. (see the above) Not one oil industry representative brought up difficulty in drilling when questioned about the reserves. They did bring up #4.
4. The worldwide inventory of both offshore and onshore drilling equipment is low due to the draw-down years ago when prices were low.
5. The U.S. currently drills offshore in the Gulf of Mexico, the California coast and Alaska.
6. The U.S. is almost at capacity in refining capability. Those things take HUGE investments in time and money to construct.
7. If every single person in the U.S switched to LED or fluorescent bulbs in all home applications, it would equal the yearly output of most of the estimated reserves of the moratorium area.
8. The areas in question were last surveyed in the 20s to 50s, and any estimates on field size and yield are sketchy at best.
9. Almost every area drilled so far in non-moratorium areas has exceeded initial estimates by at least a factor of 5, and some are still growing.
10. Doesn't matter what happens, the fields in Florida won't be happening. Regardless of politicians the voters say no no no. Bluehairs and tourist robbers want their beaches pristine.
11. Modern agreements for drilling, whether on- or off-shore carry huge financial obligations for any oil company if they make a mess.
12. Technology and little things like the Exxon Valdez have taught a lesson or two, and drilling is now one the cleaner industrial processes.
13. Oil is a global commodity, and if we make more and someone else will pay more than domestic prices... then guess who gets it?
14. There are TWO legal blocks to drilling in these areas. One is a law passed by the legislature. One is an Executive Order signed by Bush Sr.
There was more, but it's late.
What I got out of the week's debate was we are pretty much spucked either way for the short term. My personal question overall was... why not drill the proven reserves right the hell now while releasing permission for EXPLORATORY wells in the moratorium areas?
Carrot and Carrot works on capitalists. Fiscal incentives to drill now such as drill a well on land on proven reserves and get a lease bloc of your choice offshore.
The thing about offshore wells is that no one wants the associated crap like the big honkin' stinkin' refinery on their coast. That stuff does not get shipped one mile farther than it has to before they start cracking it. If you have to build new refineries anyway they will be built near the wells.
I have noticed a lot of polarization here now that we are in an election cycle guys. Let's discuss these things on their individual merits rather than look at everything through the dem/pub lens. Large things like wells and refineries will ultimately be decided by the voters that live in the states that are affected. It won't matter one iota if the feds/the President/etc say OK if the states say no. This whole thing is a (smart)marketing ploy by interests that see a long-awaited chance to get something they want. More proven reserves to boost investment(stock price). It has absolutely no bearing on Dems or Republicans. The President is an oilman at heart, but his Dad was the one who signed the executive order banning drilling. Now that IS a poser eh? If The president was in any way actually serious or hopeful that anything would happen, he can at any time rescind the Executive Order, thereby getting rid of 50% of what is holding the process up. It would also send a signal to the Hill the this is a serious issue, and he is willing to spend his waning political capital on it.
When the news reports that the Executive Order has been rescinded, I will believe this is more than a sideshow. I would then also recommend that anyone with the cash buy heavily in any company that makes drilling rigs and pipe.
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Lord, help me to be the person my psychiatrist medicates me to be. |
Edited by - BluehairOMO on Jun 20 2008 21:01:21 |
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Country: USA
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Havok
regular visitor
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Posted - Jun 21 2008 : 06:00:16
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I have read that reversing the ban imposed by Bush 1 is under serious consideration by Bush 2 but for now he is trying to work with the congress, which is probably the thing to do rather than acting unilaterally. Imagine the libs uproar if Bush 2 did act unilaterally? We'll see what the congress does.
FYI: The ban on offshore drilling was a knee jerk reaction imposed after the Exxon/Valdez spill and also, the governor of Florida is for the lifting of the ban now. I bet Florida will go for drilling because there will be no rigs for the first 50 miles and add to that the fact that very little oil was lost from rigs that were in The Gulf Of Mexico during Katrina. And also add to that the fact that the human eye can only see about 18 miles due to the curvature of the Earth. The beaches will remain pristine.
As to number 6 above, yes we do need more refining capacity, we have known this right along, but the regulations are so stringent that no company is willing to undertake the construction of a new refinery. These regulations need to be loosened right along with the right to drill.
Good post Bluehair!
Backpain is also right about this:
quote:
Something needs to get done and it needs to include long-term AND short/medium term planning.
Well said!
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BackPainOMO
Have Blunderbus, Will Plunder!
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Posted - Jun 21 2008 : 12:40:09
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I'm right about the rest, too. It's just you need to be wearing the same red colored glasses that I do to see it....
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| "The (Democratic) Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. ... We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" --George Orwell, "1984" - And if you have not figured that out by now with Obama in office, there is no hope. |
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HEARTBURN-OMO
Spammer wannabe
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Posted - Jun 21 2008 : 19:24:15
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Just remember one thing, and this coming from a guy raised in the oil business. When you hear "There are not enough "KNOWN" reserves to supply the worlds demands? Remember the work "KNOWN". There is so much oil out there and we do have the technology to go get it safely and cleanly. Just go get it because if we don't every other country out there will be right off our borders hording it up and charging us tons for it.
Also, someone said China is raising it's prices? The chinese gov't subsides almost 50 cents per gallon so the masses can afford it. So my guess is they are raising the prices by no pitching in their "fair" share of the costs.
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SkidiMark-OMO
OMO groupie
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Posted - Jun 22 2008 : 16:32:39
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So true, with the quakes in California, I haven't heard of any spillage from offshore or even the onshore fields.
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To Drill Or Not To Drill .....
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