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BackPainOMO
Have Blunderbus, Will Plunder!
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 Posted - Nov 25 2005 : 23:51:42
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I posted the following concerning the problems with aircraft in the game. I'm so sick of being utterly helpless against these guys because they are so out of wack with the rest of the game.
I'm also sick of our own pilots forgetting about air superiority and just joining in the quest for kills with the enemy so the ground pounders get no protection at all. If you are going to fly an aircraft on the OMO side, PROTECT YOUR TEAM!!! The game is not just about how many kills you can rack up.
Anyway, this is my complaint on BF2 suggestions forum:
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"Actually, they have aircraft supreme superiority.
It has to be brought into balance. The game is not meant to be a frag fest for some joker with a hot joystick who can make bombing runs every 20 seconds.
The problems that need to be fixed regarding aircraft.
I'll start with fixed wing. They ruin this game in so many ways:
1. The ability to reload weapons and do bombing runs every 20 seconds is way out of balance with the rest of the weaponry in the game. When you consider the lethality of the weapons, nothing comes within a country mile of this firepower. Further, in a battle the size of what we are playing, a fighter could only do 1 sortie to begin with. It could make multiple runs by dropping one bomb at a time, sure, but not a full load out of bombs over and over and over and over and over again in a matter of 2 minutes.
2. #1 might be if not for the fact that aircraft have the same survivabity to take/resist damage as M1A2 tanks do. This is completely unrealistic and rediculously hard to knock down a good pilot who can make turns that no real aircraft (or pilot) could ever do. Besides, AA missiles can't hit the broad side of a barn.
3. Aircraft are far too maneuverable on the small battlefields we play on.
4. Fixed wing aircraft are able to I.D. targets and line up targets on the ground far too easily. Fast movers in Vietnam and today require spotters or outside means to identify targets like infantry and individual cars while flying low level, high speed runs (don't say they are flying low speed runs in those jets, because that just brings up another unreality).
5. The range and fixed position of anti-aircraft weapons make it extremely difficult to compete against a jet that simply blows you up as you wait for lock to take place. The time from acquisition to lock is not much more than their time to go from too far to detect to bomb impact.
6. Why do aircraft get warnings for infrared anti-aircraft missiles? That's not real at all. The only warning they shoud be receiving is when they see a smoke plume or upon impact.
Helicopters:
1. Why is it a helo can destroy a tank in a single volley, but a tank that gets a stupid helo pilot lined up because he is sitting there hovering (doing so because he knows he is nearly omnipitent) can't kill a helo with one shot? My god, a tank round can't kill a helo in one shot? Can it kill a bunny rabbit in two?
2. Helos hover and make mincemeat out of everything around them because they fear nothing. Time to make them fear death.
That is my only complaint against helos. They are incredibly powerful. They should be...it's realisitic. BUT, they should not be able to sustain massive damage they way they do vs. heavy cannon and tank rounds. Hand held anti-tank should be able to do them in in 2 shots just like they can take down a tank, but they can't. Further, when they have to rearm and repair, at least it takes them awhile to do it.
Bottom line: FIX THE AIRCRAFT, THEY ARE MESSING UP THE GAME."
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Help out by posting your support for fixing the aircraft problems in the game.
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| "The (Democratic) Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. ... We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" --George Orwell, "1984" - And if you have not figured that out by now with Obama in office, there is no hope. |
Country: USA
| Posts: 2406 |
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Older- OMO
I got my bike at the ScooterStore
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 Posted - Nov 26 2005 : 01:03:08
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I will try to rationalize the plane aspect since it would seem, part of this was directed towards players like me:
It is a fine line between providing ground support, i.e. killing tanks, aa, foot soldiers, etc. and engaging in dogfights to shoot down planes. Sounds like you consider them to be the same. On our server tonight, I shot down JohnnyFairplay as many times as I could, but he is hard to shoot down, especially if I am in a bomber.
When I was in a fighter, it still wasn't easy. I chased and was not pursuing kills, and kept him engaged as much as possible, but he still got a bunch of kills against our team and OMO. When I fly the fighter, my primary objective is to shoot down bombers (if applicable), other fighters and choppers. When I shoot the bomber down, I try to keep them out of the air for as long as possible.Despite the "small" size of the maps that we play, it isn't easy to track down the other planes, especially with the line of sight being limited.
When I am in a bomber, my objective is to eliminate as many ground targets as possible, focusing on areas not covered or where armor is overwhelming our ground forces. Did I get a lot of kills when I flew the bomber? Yes, I had a couple of good rounds. Does it help the team? Absolutely... I hit flags when they are turning much quicker than any other vehicle can get there. It gives us the opportunity to reclaim the flag or delay the enemy takeover. I can stop waves of armor before they get to our flags or at least delay their arrival while our people are respawning. Don't forget that my kills help with the tickets as well.
In games like tonight, there was a certain level of balance in that both sides were suffering from the bombers. Do I think that the bombers are a little out of whack? Yes, but it is part of the game. I agree with most of your points. I don't like to be on the receiving end of death after death, but that is also why I went and learned how to fly.
We could turn both planes into chasing planes and choppers, but we would find ourselves at a serious disadvantage. The best scenario is to have a good bomber pilot for ground coverage and a good fighter pilot for the skies. Unfortunately, we tend to have one or the other. It is annoying to have a person fly the fighter like it is a bomber. It is also annoying when we have a bomber pilot that isn't getting a lot of kills.
If you can't tell, I enjoy flying. I also enjoy armor, choppers and running around shooting.
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FuddyDud-OMO
Sub-reme Commander
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Posted - Nov 26 2005 : 06:35:27
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I think the times when airpower gets 'overpowering' is when there is an overly good pilot on one side and none on the other. I agree with BP about providing air support for the 'boots' but consider that when your good pilot is keeping the other guy busy, he is doing a good job.
Same goes for helo's. I've found that if your helo concentrates on ground support and the opposing helo is bent on taking out your helo, he will take a higher vantage point waiting for the opportune moment to swoop down and destroy your helo. This often forces your helo to adopt the same tactic and the result is that the 'boots' lose the air cover once more.
I would like to see, less formidable helo's just like we had in Desert Combat, not so good against armoured vehicles, but great for strafing ground troops.
Anti-aircraft vehicles often take helo's out with one shot (very efficiently) and while they are not shooting, the mere act of 'painting' the target is an excellent deterrant.
There is an abnormally long spawn time on helo's in the Wake island map... there should be consistancy in spawn times for all maps and equal for jets and helo's.
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BackPainOMO
Have Blunderbus, Will Plunder!
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Posted - Nov 26 2005 : 07:41:06
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don't take my blast about giving us some protection wrong. Put it this way, I was pissed when I started this thread and needed to lash out. Sorry for blasting you when the problem is with the game design.
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| "The (Democratic) Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. ... We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" --George Orwell, "1984" - And if you have not figured that out by now with Obama in office, there is no hope. |
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BackPainOMO
Have Blunderbus, Will Plunder!
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Posted - Nov 26 2005 : 07:59:27
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BF2.com is not an official EA site. It is a fan site. Soooo, I reposted it by going through EA's customer support. What a pain those guys make it to send them an e-mail. Anyway, I hope you guys that feel similarly will submit a similar post of complaint about the aircraft imbalance.
go here to post your complaint/agreement with a need for a fix:
http://support.ea.com/cgi-bin/ea.cfg/php/enduser/home.php?p_sid=B9dC7zVh
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| "The (Democratic) Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. ... We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" --George Orwell, "1984" - And if you have not figured that out by now with Obama in office, there is no hope. |
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HEARTBURN-OMO
Spammer wannabe
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Posted - Nov 26 2005 : 09:18:38
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BP I was on the receiving end of one or you tyrates commenting on how terrible our pilots were because we couldn't support you on the ground. The map was the Dam map. Most the time on that map while in a plane and the other team has the airfield, a pilot spends his times contending with the other fighters. You were yelling for ground support to take out a heli and at the time I had to migs on my arse.
I understand the frustration as I to have been pounded by aircraft especially on the new map. You can literally make a swoop across the runway and 2 seconds later drop it on 2-3 flags and be reloaded and back within 15 seconds.
I am not a good pilot, am learning and actually getting better. When I take off the first thing I click on is the bombs and look for a bombing target or support where I can get it. I would prefer not to mess with the other fighters and just bomb. However, it seems I might get one bombing run in and before I can get back and reload I am either chasing or being chased by another fighter.
Now, I could just get blown up trying to make a streak to reload bombs then race back to your aid or I could try to fight the plane and if anything keep him from dropping bombs on your head in the mean time.
I do agree with your analyses of the planes and helis' as well as with Olders comments. As you said, the problem is with the game and not the people trying to fly. They only work with whats available. . . . and being that I am just really getting fairly accurate with bombing, I'm not so sure you want me dropping precised aimed bombs on the enemy 50 yards in front of you. The odds are I'll take you out before I even get close to the enemy.
Finally, if your so upset at the quality of the pilots, I would suggest you warm up your joystick and give it a go. I'll be happy to hand over the throttle to ya my friend.
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http://www.entertonement.com/clips/sgxwpvxvjk--I-wipe-my-own-ass |
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BackPainOMO
Have Blunderbus, Will Plunder!
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Posted - Nov 26 2005 : 12:01:48
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I suck at flying no matter how good the joystick. I might just have to give it a try, though. My problem with it then is that I will be accepting the problem by joining the problem.
As for being on the receiving end of my bitching. Sorry, I'll put a sock in it. It's not your fault no matter how good a pilot you may or may not be.
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| "The (Democratic) Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. ... We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" --George Orwell, "1984" - And if you have not figured that out by now with Obama in office, there is no hope. |
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SoCal_RT
regular visitor
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Posted - Nov 28 2005 : 11:47:20
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Here here! I get frustrated when there's a really good bomber on the opposing team. Every map I play, the first thing I'm looking for is an AA Tank. Then I really get pissed when they bomb me before I get out of the shed! :p You know who you are!
I've been practicing flying a lot. I think I'm a pretty good pilot (not great) but it beats the hell out of me how you guys can find ground targets and hit them. I can't tell who the hell I'm looking at until I'm right over them. And I can't hit crap on the ground with the guns. So basically, I just circle the maps hunting choppers and other planes. I figure at least that way, my ground troops get a break here and there. A good example was last night, I got only 7 kills, but they were all air-to-air. We won the round, and I would like to think that's parly because I was keeping the enemy aircraft busy.
Any tips on spotting ground targets? Just learning the flight ropes still...would like to be more supportive to ground troops.
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Dementia-OMO
Freak of Internet Gaming
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Posted - Nov 28 2005 : 11:59:29
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They need shoulder mounted stingers in this game and they need to increase the damage by AA vehicles.
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do i play this game too much???HELL YES! |
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Target
frequent visitor
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 Posted - Nov 28 2005 : 17:14:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Dementia-OMO
They need shoulder mounted stingers in this game and they need to increase the damage by AA vehicles.
Couldn't agree more. This would balance things out nicely.
AA vehicle should have SAM's that can hunt down a jet/helo with one shot when aimed and shot with full tone.
Like to see stationary SAM sites at the airfields also.
Can't believe how useless the Stingers are.
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Aedes
regular visitor
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Posted - Dec 02 2005 : 09:16:57
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i think the planes are just fine the way they are!
(hehehe... j/k)
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ssp_aegis
new visitor
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Posted - Dec 02 2005 : 09:58:09
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I repeat, Aedes is not a part of silentshadowplatoon
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FuddyDud-OMO
Sub-reme Commander
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Posted - Dec 02 2005 : 10:02:23
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Is that significant?
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Country: USA
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BackPainOMO
Have Blunderbus, Will Plunder!
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Posted - Dec 02 2005 : 12:08:04
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Take a hike, punk.
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| "The (Democratic) Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. ... We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" --George Orwell, "1984" - And if you have not figured that out by now with Obama in office, there is no hope. |
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FuddyDud-OMO
Sub-reme Commander
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Posted - Dec 02 2005 : 13:14:56
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OK.. if you insist.
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BackPainOMO
Have Blunderbus, Will Plunder!
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Posted - Dec 02 2005 : 15:00:42
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Not you, Fudster.
Besides, all the waddling required for a duck to take a hike would make you chafe. We wouldn't want that.
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| "The (Democratic) Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. ... We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" --George Orwell, "1984" - And if you have not figured that out by now with Obama in office, there is no hope. |
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Redneck OMO
frequent visitor
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Posted - Dec 03 2005 : 21:39:16
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Now HERE is a rant I would like to get in on!
The fact that aircraft are very powerful in the game I can go along with. It is the fact that aircraft need fear ONLY other aircraft that rubs me the wrong way. Yes, yes I know that we ground pounders have the MIGHTY Stinger(what a joke!) and vehicle mounted machine guns that are theoretically capable of bringing aircraft down(and we all know that in practice this rarely happens!) OH!! Almost forgot the AWESOME AA vehicles, WOOT!!!!! IMHO, the ground pounder has only the slightest chance of bringing down aircraft. For the most part a pilot has little to fear from ANYTHING coming at him from the ground. Oh, yeah... he may take a little damage, but nothing a quick run over the airfield wont cure! The only time a pilot really gets his pucker factor up is when he is under threat from another aircraft.
Ever been the victum of a good Blackhawk pilot and gunner on the Mashtuur map?? Ever witnessed the Blackhawk take a few bursts of machine gun fire(you can only get off a few rounds from the vehicles before the gunner vaporizes you) and say 4 or 5 hits from the AT guys and CONTINUE to slowly orbit the Hotel, killing you and your buddies like so many fish in a barrel???
Ever been awarded a Purple Heart while playing the Oil Field map and realizing you have spent the entire round doing nothing but manning one of the AA vehicles? Spawn... jump in the AA... fire the gun and missles MADLY... see the bombs coming off the underside of the plane... spawn... jump in the AA(well, im sure you know the drill)
And my last and most favorite example... you are at the flag on the Dam map where the AA spawns in the shed... you jump in the AA... an Apache is on approach to your flag but is targeting the tank who is there with you... the helo comes to a hover and lines up on the tank... you fire both missles and crank up the gun, youre at close range and cant miss!... the missles hit and you fire the gun into the helo until it overheats and locks up... just about this time the helo has vaporized the tank and has managed to rotate around to get you in his sights... you may now consider which flag you would like to spawn at BECAUSE YOU ARE DEAD!!!
OK... enough ranting (I feel better )
My point is this: You dont have to nerf the aircraft but for Gods sake give the guy on the ground a better AA weapon! Stingers are a freakin' joke! AA vehicles are not much better(now really, should a helo be able to absorb every round a vehicle can fire until the gun overheats, then just merrily vaporize you and fly off?) I think this game needs AA weapons that the ground pounder can access that are TRULY a threat to the aircraft.
WORD!!
Red
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FuddyDud-OMO
Sub-reme Commander
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Posted - Dec 03 2005 : 22:10:45
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Since I don't have to take a hike.... I'm back.
Red, your rant qualifies for the "LAST WORD" thread.
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Complaint I put on BF2 Forums
