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Cadaver-OMO
Dead Man Flying
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 Posted - Aug 28 2009 : 10:35:18
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Just to pour some more gasoline on the fire...a five-minute "cartoon" (feels more like a power-point) video comparing the concept of universal health care with other goverment-run services such as firefighting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jng4TnKqy6A
While it does oversimplify the whole debate, it raises my main issue with the private system: the high percentage of the money that we pay into it which goes into the bankers i.e. insurance companies' pockets. Is this what we really want? Do we really trust them to act in our best health-care interests? If being a "socialist" means paying into a system which voters have at least some control over, versus a system where a few greedy SOB's make off like bandits, is that really so bad?
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BackPainOMO
Have Blunderbus, Will Plunder!
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Posted - Aug 28 2009 : 11:35:05
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Does it require a government takeover to get more competition in the system? The Kool-Aid says you have to have government run health care in order to fix these problems. That's the lie. There are lots of ways of increasing competition and reducing cost. You do not have to throw out the baby with the bath water and redesign the whole thing into a different type of nightmare.
How about this:
All insurance must be offered to anyone that wants to buy that package at the same rate, regardless of who their employer is? So, no more packaging to sell to corporations. Just set it up for business to handle the deductions (insurance premium) through the employee's payroll to make it pre-tax dollars.
So, if an insurance provider has insurance package X, that package must be offered to all who want to buy the package. Those with pre-existing conditions have to be on their current insurance and cannot be dropped, but cannot just go out and buy a better package for their condition just because it suits them now, either. They can apply for assistance (there has to be consequences to people's actions or they will be just as stupid as you let them be).
There, now you just opened up competition and access to insurance. Thrown in tort reform, poor neighborhood clinics, cheap catastrophic insurance for young people, and deport 20 million illegals and a 1,000 other ideas and we have something.
It does not require a 1,000 page Bill full of left wing Pelosi madness and a government run system to fix health care. Obama and company are all about Socialism. It was beat into their heads by their professors in college and they won't stop until they have their dream Utopia that will fix all ills.
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| "The (Democratic) Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. ... We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" --George Orwell, "1984" - And if you have not figured that out by now with Obama in office, there is no hope. |
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Bifocal-OMO
Moderator
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Posted - Aug 28 2009 : 17:24:43
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There was nothing wrong with what I posted. and Festus, on the news today The Canadian Supreme Court declared that your healthcare was now bankrupt Whats up with that. What happens now;
Expired and I quote "Bifocal, I really don't dislike you I just enjoy poking you because I know I will get a response every time. I really should stop..........BUT DAMM, you just make it so EASY. Whoooooooo Haaaaaaa Haaaaaaaa
I don't dislike you either. I believe the words you used a few threads back was that "Spewing false statements. Look at you and your statement. You say you do not dislike me but you have made a point to try to belittle me at every turn. I really don't care just pointing out that you are no better than what you call me. It is not all about you.
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Edited by - Bifocal-OMO on Aug 28 2009 19:44:22 |
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TLBFestus
Is it safe?
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Posted - Aug 28 2009 : 20:20:21
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I really don't care to participate in this discussion anymore, but I felt compelled to reply to your blanket statement that our health care system is bankrupt. I'm going out on a limb here and guessing you briefly skimmed something, somewhere, or let some of the truly enlightened talking mouths out there give you the information the way they interpret it.
Except of course, that's not what happened. In essence the Supreme Court validated what I proposed in one of my replies above, that our public health care works, but that in the cases where it is NOT working efficiently people should have access to other, read PRIVATE, options if they can afford it. This is short, but below is the summation/opinion of our Supreme Court. Nowhere in the article does it say our health care system bankrupt.;
"We conclude, based on the evidence, that prohibiting health insurance that would permit ordinary Canadians to access health care, in circumstances where the government is failing to deliver health care in a reasonable manner, thereby increasing the risk of complications and death, interferes with life and security of the person as protected by section seven of the Charter."
Our Health care system is not perfect, there are problems, and I very pleased to hear the Supreme Court of Canadas ruling on this issue, as I have felt for a long time that the best way is some combination of pubic/private health care. Now, if your current govt is talking SOLELY a public system, then they need to look at this too, but having a public component to a health care system, IMHO is a GOOD THING.
Here's a link or two for you to read a bit more;
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110006813
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0012787
That's my final (no really I mean it this time) contribution to this forum. I know you, Bifocal, will read these and want to hang on to every instance where our system has failed because it does at times, and it did so for myself personally at one point, but it still does an immense amount of good for people. Still I look forward to the continued evolution of our system to something even better. Hopefully in the US you will find a good solution too.
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Fossil-OMO
Moderator
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Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 00:16:43
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The Govt doesn't need to be running the health care system, they can regulate all they want. Health insurance just needs to be brought down to an acceptable level is all. We're almost broke as it is, almost 7 trillion in debt and counting.
The county hospital has a clinic that is cheap as hell why don't people go there if they need something?
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Country: USA
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Kayjay
Kay"I-buggy-bomb"jay
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Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 02:36:21
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Because they don't do neurology.
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Country: USA
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Bifocal-OMO
Moderator
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Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 04:53:22
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Just stating what they said on one of the news stations the other day. I will try to find it and post a link if there is one. It is not biggie what Canada does Festus, I don't live there. I was just stating what I heard on the news. The truly enlightened talking mouth concerning the guy I talked to, was someone that plays Dark Orbit with me and some others that lives in Canada and he says that if he needed attention fast he would come to the states to get it and encouraged me to not accept this universal health care.
I am not trying to get on you or anyone else Festus. As you should have seen, I am the one getting bashed not your or expired. I go on what I get and that is it. Sorry, but I don't believe that I want the kind of health care you guys get. If I need a operation tomorrow, I can have it and not have to wait. He was told it would be 2 months. CBS reported that to get a MRI or CAT scan, you could get the next day if you were a dog or cat but a human might have to wait 3 to 6 months. In 3 to 6 months with cancer you could move to advanced stages and it would be over.
This nation has the best health care in the world the way it is. Rationing is not needed. If we get rid of the 20 to 30 million illegals we have running to the hospital for a cold and us paying for it we would do fine. Now they are saying that the swine flu could or will kill between 30 and 90k. Last year the doctors killed over 100k by accidents. Which is worse. Good gosh.
You say that you will not go further with this thread and that is your right. I encourage you not to stop because of me. If you get mad or upset because i feel the way I do, sorry for that also. As you I have the right to express and I will. None of what I have posted was intended to be offensive or to bash as some have done to me. I guess I should say this also. I love you all.
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Country: USA
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Fossil-OMO
Moderator
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Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 05:01:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Kayjay
Because they don't do neurology.
It's not everyday you need that
Just for general stuff, I went there before I was married and had a job.
We have a law requiring you to have car insurance, why not catastrophic insurance? say anything over 10k or so?
What I'm afraid of is that soo many people will flood the Dr. office just because they have the sniffles.
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Bypass-OMO
frequent visitor
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Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 13:41:32
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Bif the United states does not have the best health care in the world we are like 35th for health care and 33rd for mortality. If this is the best we can do we should be ashamed of ourselves the biggest profiters in our recession are the oil companies and the Health insurance industry and that is shamefull. the CEO of United Health Care is making $103,000 an hour, like Fossil says these industies need to be regulated cause like wall street they are way out of control.
Now if you are really interesed in the state of our health care pls watch the video I am posting and then tell me that we have the greated health care in the world!! personally I find this shamefull and not the america that I want to see. Fetus Bif will rail on private health care while being a Vet he benifits from socialized heath care as do all of our elected officials and we the tax payers are paying for it!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K21_teAW0Zg
pls watch this since I took the time to find it. Pay attention to the Remote Area Medical part, they are set up for 3rd world countries so what are they doing in L.A.??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBi2hMK1G8Y
Just one more video for information so we can all get it. Pls watch we all need to know about these guys.
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Edited by - Bypass-OMO on Aug 29 2009 14:14:21 |
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Kayjay
Kay"I-buggy-bomb"jay
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Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 15:42:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Bypass-OMO
...we are like 35th for health care and 33rd for mortality....
Do you have a refference? it sounds like an interesting article to read.
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Cadaver-OMO
Dead Man Flying
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Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 16:15:46
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The difficulty with trying to regulate insurance premiums is that unless liabilities are also regulated, there will be no more insurers.
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Country: USA
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Fossil-OMO
Moderator
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Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 17:41:21
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I find it ironic that that the dems are trying the name the health care bill after Ted Kennedy when he wouldn't have been subjected to it.
As far as the oil companies go, we can talk about profit and profit margin on another thread. the mark up on oil isn't all that much, it's all about volume. Now furniture has a 300% mark up but I don't hear anyone complaining about "Big Furniture" LOL. btw isn't LA a third world country?
We have the best health care professionals int the world and some of them are imports from Canada and India. I was doing a search for doctors for myself one time and a large number of them graduated from Canada, Now why would they elect to to come to the united states instead of their native country?
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Edited by - Fossil-OMO on Aug 29 2009 17:44:23 |
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Bypass-OMO
frequent visitor
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Kayjay
Kay"I-buggy-bomb"jay
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Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 18:28:40
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Huh.... Canada beats us in nearly everything. We were even beat by some of the lesser known countries where you would think that health care would be worse. Columbia, for instance, was 22nd.
I did like this article that was provided as a link on their site:
http://allcountries.org/health/usa_health_care_2008_nyt.html
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Bypass-OMO
frequent visitor
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Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 18:32:42
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Ya thats a good read I also read that article and found some interesting facts.
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Country: USA
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Bypass-OMO
frequent visitor
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Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 18:49:54
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Fossil you acually missed my point in that what companies are making gross profits by gouging the american people during a recession which is obsene, but nice way to try to change the subject to the dems naming of a bill lol and the doctors from other countries can make a hell of a lot more money by practicing in america and retiring in their home countries due to our screwed up system. As far as Kennedy goes he fought for the average american his whole career and deserves a good Bill named after him. His contributions to the working class will be missed.
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Edited by - Bypass-OMO on Aug 29 2009 19:09:40 |
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Bifocal-OMO
Moderator
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Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 19:31:41
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Bypass, I would like to inform you that I have a private doctor. I go to the VA for my regular check ups. For everything else I go to a regular doctor at the Medical plaza. The doctor I used to see went to the VA because he saw this coming and wanted to be covered. Unless you have prevy to my records you don't know where I go thus you are not that well informed.
Now that we have that straight, what are you saying again because if we do not have the best why in GODS name are people from all over the world coming here for treatment. Also I don't want anything from a 3rd world country. You might but I don't.
I don't watch to much MSNBC as they are one of the most liberal stations out there. But then again just about all of them are. The news media caters to the Liberals and anything that they are pushing.
I know nothing about the group that has put together the information on your thread. For all i know they may support Obama. Seriously, I was sarcastic with that remark but I don't know about them and how partial they are and if their figures are right or not. You searched the web and found them for all you know they sit back and put what they want in that.
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Edited by - Bifocal-OMO on Aug 29 2009 19:41:51 |
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Bypass-OMO
frequent visitor
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Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 19:57:18
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My info on your VA visits are from your posts old friend as you have proudly told us how well they treat you for the service to your country, and you completly missed the point on the Remote Area Medical group in Los Angeles (which is not a 3rd world country Fossil) and the MSNBC interview is fact and not some liberal news (Ed Shultz used to be a Republican) so go back and watch the video a little closer to get the point because like you I do not want anything from a 3rd world country. The world health organization is not some random website just read on the site who they are and what they do.
Now that we have that straight happy viewing.
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Specimen-OMO
OMO stalker
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Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 19:59:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Fossil-OMO
We have the best health care professionals int the world and some of them are imports from Canada and India. I was doing a search for doctors for myself one time and a large number of them graduated from Canada, Now why would they elect to to come to the united states instead of their native country?
Some Canadian Doctors go because they get paid more.
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Country: Canada
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Bypass-OMO
frequent visitor
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Posted - Aug 29 2009 : 20:31:35
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I thought I said that Spec lol
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For those who support Universal Health Care
